Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzatto on Gentiles - Revision history

HaNoahide: /* Question */

2006-09-30T22:00:42Z

‎Question

HaNoahide: /* Answer */

2006-09-30T21:58:41Z

‎Answer

HaNoahide at 21:57, 30 September 2006

2006-09-30T21:57:46Z

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==Question==
With Help From Heavens.

Dear Rabbi, I received this questions on our "Bnei Noah do Brasil" Study Group and I could not answer propely. If you can help me to find more understanding bout the question...it is as follow:

[Dear Alberto, would we gentiles understand those words of Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzatto: "On his book - the way of God - (Portuguese Translation) Chapter 4, Israel and the Nations, in the end":

"the deeds of the nations, on other hand, do not add to or subtract from the state of creation, nor do they cause God to revel Himself or withdraw. All they can do is bring about their own gain or loss, and strenghthen or weaken their own directing angel.
Although God does not involve himself expressly in the direction of the nations in detail, it is possible that He should exercise His Providence over them whem it is required for the sake of Israel. This may be because of a single jew, or for a number of them. Such a case, however, falls under the category of means, discussed in the previous chapter."

Saying on this words, that the gentiles are secondary people to God?! We gentiles do not cause God to revel Himself (So God revealed Himself by the means of the jews and not by Himself?!) so our prayers and devotion are nothing but dependant on Israel?!
We pray for God but a angel is listen and only after that God?!
If God reveals Himself, He only do if that will be good for a jew? If not (if its good just for a gentile) He is not interested in it?
So for what porpose gentile are noahides? To serve Israel religion for sure?! ]

You answer will be very precious, Thanks.
Alberto.

==Answer==
Dear Alberto,

Torah acknowledges the existence of many gods. The bnai brit peoples by swearing an oath not to switch faith and worship other gods, we cut a brit that Elohim and only Elohim is our G-D.
Gentiles as human beings share equality with bnai brit peoples who's lives also are human beings. There is no primary or secondary status. All people qualify as human beings. The distinction occurs with human beings who are bnai brit and human beings who are non-bnai Brit. Naturally if a non-bnai brit person had the same relationship with the Elohim as a bnai brit person there'd be no reason to cut a brit/oath. If i drop a brick and it lands on my foot, I have no justification to complain about gravity. So too the non-bnai brit peoples have no reason to complain about their non relationship with the Elohim of Israel. A person must have the courage to accept the consequences of his/her actions. That the gentiles rejected the brit of Noach and Avraham at the revelation of the Torah at Sinai, why they complain that they want the non responsibilities of being a non-bnai brit peoples while enjoying the benefits of a bnai brit peoples makes no logical sense and reflects great emotional immaturity; you can't have your cake and eat it too! If a non-bnai brit person seeks the Elohim, then that person must cut a brit/oath. No Oath No Brit Period. Its just that simple take it or leave it but that's how the game's played. Those are the rules. Complaining about the rules by which Elohim and bnai brit Israel forged an alliance really doesn't accomplish anything. Worse it encourages a tumah middah of a Narrow Eye, Jealousy, a desire to rip off all the good for ones' self and hatred without cause. Look how the christians slandered Jews for possessing all the wealth and seeking to control the world. Emotional immaturity is a plague that has shed immense bloodshed, a terrible example - the systematic murder of 1/3 of my people over a 12 year period. Non-bnai brit peoples bear the mark of Cain.

with respect,
moshe

[[Category:Oath Brit Approach]]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ==Question==
- With Help From Heavens.
+With Help From Heavens.
 Dear Rabbi, I received this questions on our "Bnei Noah do Brasil" Study Group and I could not answer propely. If you can help me to find more understanding bout the question...it is as follow:

@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 ==Answer==
- Dear Alberto,
+Dear Alberto,
-−
-Torah acknowledges the existence of many gods. The bnai brit peoples by swearing an oath not to switch faith and worship other gods, we cut a brit that Elohim and only Elohim is our G-D.
+Torah acknowledges the existence of many gods.  The [[bnai brit]] peoples by swearing an oath not to switch faith and worship other gods, we [[cut a brit]] that [[Elohim]] and only [[Elohim]] is our G-D.
-Gentiles as human beings share equality with bnai brit peoples who's lives also are human beings. There is no primary or secondary status. All people qualify as human beings. The distinction occurs with human beings who are bnai brit and human beings who are non-bnai Brit. Naturally if a non-bnai brit person had the same relationship with the Elohim as a bnai brit person there'd be no reason to cut a brit/oath. If i drop a brick and it lands on my foot, I have no justification to complain about gravity. So too the non-bnai brit peoples have no reason to complain about their non relationship with the Elohim of Israel. A person must have the courage to accept the consequences of his/her actions. That the gentiles rejected the brit of Noach and Avraham at the revelation of the Torah at Sinai, why they complain that they want the non responsibilities of being a non-bnai brit peoples while enjoying the benefits of a bnai brit peoples makes no logical sense and reflects great emotional immaturity; you can't have your cake and eat it too! If a non-bnai brit person seeks the Elohim, then that person must cut a brit/oath. No Oath No Brit Period. Its just that simple take it or leave it but that's how the game's played. Those are the rules. Complaining about the rules by which Elohim and bnai brit Israel forged an alliance really doesn't accomplish anything. Worse it encourages a tumah middah of a Narrow Eye, Jealousy, a desire to rip off all the good for ones' self and hatred without cause. Look how the christians slandered Jews for possessing all the wealth and seeking to control the world. Emotional immaturity is a plague that has shed immense bloodshed, a terrible example - the systematic murder of 1/3 of my people over a 12 year period. Non-bnai brit peoples bear the mark of Cain.
+Gentiles as human beings share equality with [[bnai brit]] peoples who's lives also are human beings.  There is no primary or secondary status.  All people qualify as human beings.  The distinction occurs with human beings who are [[bnai brit]] and human beings who are [[non-bnai Brit]].  Naturally if a [[non-bnai brit]] person had the same relationship with the [[Elohim]] as a [[bnai brit]] person there'd be no reason to [[cut a brit]]/oath.  If i drop a brick and it lands on my foot, I have no justification to complain about gravity.  So too the [[non-bnai brit]] peoples have no reason to complain about their non relationship with the [[Elohim]] of Israel.  A person must have the courage to accept the consequences of his/her actions.  That the gentiles rejected the brit of Noach and Avraham at the revelation of the Torah at Sinai, why they complain that they want the non responsibilities of being a [[non-bnai brit]] peoples while enjoying the benefits of a [[bnai brit]] peoples makes no logical sense and reflects great emotional immaturity;  you can't have your cake and eat it too!  If a [[non-bnai brit]] person seeks the [[Elohim]], then that person must [[cut a brit]]/oath.  No Oath No Brit Period.  Its just that simple take it or leave it but that's how the game's played.  Those are the rules.  Complaining about the rules by which [[Elohim]] and [[bnai brit]] Israel forged an alliance really doesn't accomplish anything.  Worse it encourages a tumah middah of a Narrow Eye, Jealousy, a desire to rip off all the good for ones' self and hatred without cause.  Look how the christians slandered Jews for possessing all the wealth and seeking to control the world.  Emotional immaturity is a plague that has shed immense bloodshed, a terrible example - the systematic murder of 1/3 of my people over a 12 year period.  [[Non-bnai brit]] peoples bear the mark of Cain.
-−
 with respect,
 moshe
 [[Category:Oath Brit Approach]]